Tag Archives: Webley & Scott

A ‘Prestigious Man Stopper’ The Mark VI Webley .455

With a story that runs nearly the entire length of the 20th Century, the iconic top-break British Webley in .455 Caliber Eley is a beast.

My personal interest in the Webley, specifically the bonkers-large Mark VI, which entered service with a 6-inch barrel standard, dates to watching old war movies and TV shows as a kid in the 1970s and 80s, and there were plenty to choose from.

According to IMFDB, they appeared in the hands of Gary Cooper, Peter Lorre, Peter O’ Toole (several times, including “Lawrence of Arabia”), Clark Gable, Richard Burton, Gregory Peck, Bob Hoskins (anachronistically in “Zulu Dawn” of all things!), Burt Lancaster, James Keach, Edward Woodward, Michael Crawford, Christopher Lee, and so on.

It was just a commanding piece.

I mean, look at it:

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The Mark VI Webley .455 (All photos unless noted: Chris Eger/Guns.com)
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The Mark VI runs almost a foot long, taping out at 11.25 inches. It weighs 2.5 pounds, unloaded. 

Plus, the beautiful rimmed .455 rounds are short and almost comically fat. Stout like a British bulldog. A sumo wrestler compared to the more puny contemporaries such as the 8mm French used in that country’s M1892 revolver, the Russian 7.65×38 used in the Tsarist-era Nagant, and the rimmed 9mm round used by the Japanese Type 26 revolver (the latter of which only generated a velocity of about 500 fps!).

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver bullet
The .455 Webley (right), in this case a 262-grain lead round-nosed Mk.II bullet, compared to a 230-grain .45 ACP FMJ, a bullet familiar to readers this side of the pond. The .455 was introduced in 1891, whereas Browning’s .45 ACP dated to about two decades later. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
When loaded with .455, the unmodified Webley Mark VI has a decent cylinder lock-up with minimal gap. 

I recall reading a book on guerrilla warfare weapons, published in 1990, that noted the Webley was still often encountered in the hands of insurgents as flotsam from the old British colonial empire and was “a prestigious man stopper.”

Only it wasn’t really.

Sure, any time you get hit by a 218-265 grain bullet, it is going to smart, but, seeing as the projectile typically only traveled at about 600 to 750 fps, the energy imparted on impact was only in the 220-300 ft./lb. range, which is about on average to what you get out of .38 Special (and that’s not even +P loads, either). This was compounded by at least five different generations of service bullets and loads for the .455, all attempting to make it more effective, though they never came close to modern self-defense designs.

But, when used at bad-breath range against the Kaiser’s skinny Landsers on the Western Front in 1915, or poorly clad indigenous warriors and bandits in far-off lands who are probably already fighting parasites and poor diets, it likely worked just fine.

Still, the large 2.5-pound square-butt revolver could prove a useful club when needed.

Fairburn and Sykes, who knew a thing or ten about the Webley in service, had the following passage in their 1942 “Shooting to Live” Commando primer in the chapter on “Stopping Power.”

We shall choose for our first instance one relating to the big lead bullet driven at a moderate velocity. On this occasion, a Sikh constable fired six shots with his .455 Webley at an armed criminal of whom he was in pursuit, registering five hits. The criminal continued to run, and so did the Sikh, the latter clinching the matter finally by battering in the back of the criminal’s head with the butt of his revolver. Subsequent investigations showed that one bullet only, and that barely deformed, remained in the body, the other four having passed clean through.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
“Stopping Power!” as debated in 1942.

A closer look at the gun

The Webley top-break revolver itself dates to the company’s original Mark I service revolver, which was adopted by the British military in 1887, starting around £3 each, and a host of generational changes until the wheel gun seen in this piece, the Mark VI, arrived on the scene in May 1915.

A top-break six-shooter, it replaced the shorter Mark V, which had a rounded bird’s head style grip, with a much larger gun using a squared butt, 6-inch barrel, and a somewhat adjustable front sight. Best yet for His Majesty’s bean counters, the wartime finish Mark VI only cost some 51 shillings per gun, or about £2.5.

More gun for less money has always been popular.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The Webley Mark VI was the end-result of nearly 30-years of Webley top-break revolvers and shared much DNA with its predecessors. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
It is akin in size to the big 5.5-inch barreled S&W DA 45, which was adopted as the M1917 by the U.S. military about the same time the Webley Mark VI entered service. The DA 45 was one of Smith’s first N-frames. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The double-action/single-action Webley Mark VI has a stout double-action trigger pull (we couldn’t gauge it; it kept maxing out), cutting to a truly short and crisp 8-pound single-action pull that is all-wall. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The hammer is very old-school. No transfer bar safety here. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The large lever, under the hammer and over the rear sight, frees up the top strap of the revolver. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The star extractor positively ejects all spent brass and live rounds when the action is opened. 

Approximately 280,000 Mark VI Service models were produced during the war, starting around serial number 135,000. Our example, featured in this article, is serial number 245,288, bearing a 1917 Webley roll mark on the frame, along with corresponding Birmingham proof marks and British military broad arrow and GR acceptance marks. These weapons were not only issued to officers and sergeants but also to artillery, machine gun, and tank crews. They saw further hard use in trench raids and tunnel warfare under said trenches.

Better-grade models of the same gun, based on the old W&S Target, but with a higher fit and finish, were available for personal purchase through the Army & Navy Co-operative store. Many gentlemen officers chose to acquire their Webley in such a fashion, while others simply went with the issued revolver. Aftermarket accessories included the early Prideaux and Watson pattern speed loaders, and the Greener-produced Pritchett bayonet, although none were made in quantity.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The large lanyard ring on the bottom of the butt came in handy not only in the trenches but in mounted service. You didn’t want your Webley to bounce out of the holster while on the trot. 

Second Lieutenant JRR Tolkien, the future author of “The Hobbit” and “The Lord of the Rings,” shipped off for France a year after graduating from Oxford. As a young officer with the 11th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers, in June 1916, he saw service at the grueling military charnel house that was the Battle of the Somme, where some 57,000 casualties were suffered in the first day alone– making it the bloodiest day in British military history. Both at the Somme and a later trench raid near Thiepval, Tolkien had with him an early first-year Mark VI Service, serial number 169,710. It is now in the Imperial War Museum, complete with its lanyard.

The Mark VI also saw service in the sky and on the sea.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
A British Royal Flying Corps field armory in France, circa 1918. Note the assorted Webley Mark VIs for use by pilots and observers who were frequently left walking back across No Man’s Land after their flying machines were shot down or broke down. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The Webley also saw service afloat with the Royal Navy for use in boarding parties and landing parties ashore. (Photos: Imperial War Museum)
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
As the RN saw extensive service against pirates, smugglers, revolutionaries, and bandits in the 1920s and 30s, you can bet the old Webley was there on the sharp end of things. Some think that the coup de grace delivered to Rasputin in December 1916 came from Oswald Rayner, a British MI6 agent in Petrograd, who used a Webley, possibly obtained from the small arms locker of a British submarine working with the Russian fleet in the Baltic. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The Webley Mark VI was officially augmented and then replaced in service with the remarkably similar but .38 caliber Enfield No. 2 in 1932 (left). Before that, the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock built around 30,000 Webley Mark VI pattern revolvers between 1921 and 1926. 

While officially replaced, the big .455 Webley remained in secondary service and was even preferred by many as their go-to sidearm.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
By the 1930s, the leather Sam Browne style holsters had been replaced by simpler canvas holsters, typically worn butt-forward. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The old Webley saw extensive service in World War II, as well as in Korea, and anecdotally with Australian troops in Vietnam, and Rhodesian and South African troops in the Bush Wars of the 1970s. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
Further, the Webley was seen with “Dad’s Army” in the Home Guard, an initially almost unarmed force that peaked at some 1.7 million volunteers ready to take on Mr. Hitler should he send his legions across the Channel. As the Home Guard often used long-retired Great War-era officers in senior positions, they brought their personally owned Army & Navy store pedigree Mark VIs back to service with them. In early units, they were often the only firearms available, save for some fowling pieces. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
Ultimately, the Browning Hi-Power L9A1 would replace all top-break revolvers in British service starting in 1954. 

An Irish tale

The Webley Mark VI entered Irish service in several ways, both via IRA-looted police, British Army, and auxiliary barracks during the 1919 to 1921 Irish War of Independence, and as guns handed over to the new Provisional pro-treaty government in 1922 and subsequently used against the anti-treaty IRA during the follow-on Irish Civil War. The Oglaigh na hÉireann (IRA) circulated printed training memos on the Mark VIas early as November 1921.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The new Irish Free State government received at least 7,000 Webley Mark VIs in 1922, which were used extensively to fight the IRA, who were often armed with Mark VIs themselves. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
Our specimen has had its serial number on its barrel assembly and frame aggressively crossed out and replaced with a simple “N.125,” which, per Webley experts Chamberlain and Taylerson, is common for Webleys taken up by Irish forces in the 1920s. 

A circa 1917 Mark VI was recovered from the late General Michael Collins after he was killed in an anti-Treaty ambush in West Cork in 1922. The same year, another circa 1917 Mark VI was used in the assassination of anti-Irish  British Field-Marshal Sir Henry Wilson in London.

Second-hand Shaved Webleys

With the adoption of the Browning Hi-Power in British —and later Commonwealth —service in the 1950s, the final stocks of Webley Mark VIs began to move into the commercial market.

Surplus Irish guns met a similar fate when Sam Cummings of Alexandria, Virginia-based Interarmco (Interarms) made a sweet deal with the Dublin government in 1959 for almost all of the old Republic’s unneeded hardware at scrap-per-ton cash-and-carry prices including a couple hundred Model 1921 Thompsons, 801 Lewis guns, 9 water-cooled Vickers machine guns, 17 Mark I and Mark II 18-pounder field guns, 22 4.5-inch howitzers, four 3-inch anti-artillery guns, 51 Browning aircraft machine guns, pallets of Enfield .303 rifles, and crates of Webley revolvers.

The Webleys were soon sold off through mail order outlets, Hunters’ Lodge, Potomac Arms, and others, for the bargain basement price of $14.50 in NRA Good condition and $19.95 in NRA Very Good Condition with .455 milsurp rounds at a pricy $1.50 per 24 (two, 12-round paper packets). Adjusted for inflation, that’s $165-$225 per revolver, and $17 for 24 rounds of ammo.

Eventually, the stock of Webleys outlasted the stock of surplus .455 and British ammo makers such as Kynoch and Eley trimmed back on production of new cartridges, further driving up the price of the increasingly hard-to-find rounds. To sate the demand, distributors by the 1960s hit on the concept of shaving the rear of the Webley’s six-shot cylinder to allow the rimless .45 ACP round to work* in a pinch, if used in company with half-moon clips as used with the old M1917 DA .45 revolvers. The .45 Auto Rim, made for use with the M1917 sans clips, would work as well.

Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The .45 ACP shaved cylinder job needed half-moon three-round clips to work. A “full-moon” six-shot clip will sometimes work, depending on the clip. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
Comparing a shaved Webley cylinder (left) and an intact .455 cylinder (right) with the old GR acceptance marks and proofs giving the latter away. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
Note the difference in cylinder length, with the intact cylinder on top having more “beef” around the serial number, while the shaved .45 ACP cylinder on the bottom has less room around its serial. 
Webley Mark VI .455 revolver
The lever that secures the cylinder to the barrel assembly uses a coin-slotted screw designed to use the rim of a .303 cartridge or a “bob” (British shilling/5-pence coin). We found a 1976 Bicentennial quarter to work fine. 

*A word of strong warning should be imparted when talking about using .45 ACP in a .455 Webley. It is inadvisable to run full-power commercial .45 ACP in any top-break revolver, including one of those beefy, seemingly indestructible Webley Mark VIs. Special low-power loads (under 13,200 psi vs the standard pressure of 21,000 psi seen in regular loads) are now on the market, made by Steinel specifically for use in shaved cylinder Mark VIs.

Speaking of ammo, Bannerman (Graf), Fiocchi, and Steinel all make new runs of .455 Eley/Webley loads as well, running about $60-$70 for a box of 50. Other than that, running this old revolver is more in the realm of handloaders who dig heavy bullets over small loads, but it is better than just having a “wall hanger.”

No matter what the backstory on this gun, it remains a “Cool Revolver.”

Just ask John Wick.

John Wick Webley
The Webley Mark VI made cameos in both “John Wick 3” and 4, continuing a nearly 100-year cinematic run. (Photo: IMFDB)

The Most Popular New Gun in India is a 1911 .45 ACP with a Familiar Name

John Moses Browning’s most famed and enduring design is now available in domestic production to a potential 1.4 billion new fans. 

As I previously covered, Webley & Scott India spun up in early 2020 with a new manufacturing facility near Lucknow in Uttar Pradesh. Operating via a 2017 partnership with the famed English firm that dates back to 1790, the company started with traditional designs such as a reboot of the classic W&S Mark IV top-break revolver in .32 S&W Long for the commercial market – essentially a more polished answer to the overpriced Nirbheek revolver sold by the country’s state-owned Indian Ordnance Factory at Kanpur. 

However, they are now making something much more, well, Red White & Blue. 

Webley & Scott India’s 1911, dubbed the catchy WP4523 by the company, is an all-steel gun made in-house. It uses 70 Series internals, is chambered in .45 ACP, runs a skeletonized trigger, Novak-style combat sights, a rounded A1 style mainspring housing, and a round spur Commander-style hammer. 

Webley is offering their 1911 in a few different variants, including one with a matte finish, ambi safety lever, and Houge grips. Others carry a more traditional deep-blued finish and double-diamond wood grips. (Photo: W&SI)

First teased in March 2022, the pistol hit the market earlier this year and the company says sales are brisk. 

“The Webley 1911 WP4523 .45 Auto is getting rave reviews across the country,” says the company. “Production is in full swing and we are working tirelessly to fulfill demand.” 

Win won for Mr. Browning.

Reports of the final demise of Webley revolvers have been premature

The Birmingham-based Webley of old dated from 1790 and had been involved in the revolver business as far back as 1853. This ad, from my 1914 edition of Janes Fighting Ships, is during the company’s heydey and W&S, at least in England, stopped making handguns in 1979.

Webley & Scott, formerly of Birmingham, England, has been rebooted in India this month, with a new plant in Lucknow making shotguns, handguns and airguns. 

The first offering from the reborn company will be a line of .32 S&W-chambered top-break double-action revolvers with the first batch hitting dealer shelves on the subcontinent in April.

Similar to the storied WWII-era Webley Mk IV .38/200 service revolver used across the British Commonwealth from the 1930s through the 1960s, the new revolvers are also dubbed Mk IVs, although they have a noticeably shorter profile.

Isn’t it cute? The new Indian-made Webley Mk IV Pocket Revolver. Coming to the U.S. soon? (Photo: Webley & Scott) 

The original WWII-era Mk IV was 10.25-inches long overall with a 5-inch barrel. Chambered in .38/200, they are commonly used in the U.S. with .38 S&W ammo. The guns were based on the British maker’s medium-framed .38 caliber Webley Mk III revolver.

Besides the Indian-made guns, an upgraded Webley, closer to the Great War-era .455 Mk VI, is being made in the UK, although to comply with strict anti-gun laws in the British Isles, it is just for export.

Meet the Anderson Wheeler Mark VII

The Anderson Wheeler “Mark VII” revolver is a seven-shot top-break, chambered in the very modern .357 Magnum.

It is reportedly the result of four years of development, working from original War Office drawings for the iconic Mark VI.

Of course, rumint is that these run about $10K, which may make the Indian revolvers, should they be imported to the States, more viable for someone wanting a new Webley wheel gun.